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tv   Studio B With Shepard Smith  FOX News  June 17, 2011 3:00pm-4:00pm EDT

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look behind me. it is blowing a gale out there in new york city on this friday afternoon. incredible. thanks for watching, everybody. have a great weekend. studio b gets started right now with shepard smith. >> shepard: incredible thunder wreaking havoc on the satellites, too. we will get to it as the news begins anew on studio b with extensive coverage this hour of the casey anthony murder trial. a lot of ground to cover in the next 60 minutes. day two for the defense. we will take a look at the day's developments at anthony's lawyers try to pick apart the the prosecution case. there are a lot of questions about the evidence that is said to link casey to the death of her daughter caylee. the question is, is there enough for a conviction? is any of the forensic testimony worth anything or is it junk science as the defense is claiming? the big question for everybody watching the trial, will casey anthony take the stand? more on that and a look at some of the people standing in line all night long just to spend
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the day in the courtroom. plus, live updates from the trial itself. phil keeting is there. our lawyers are here. it is all ahead on the coming hour of studio b. first from fox at 3:00, lawyers for the accused child killer casey anthony calling more witnesses to try to dismantle the the case against her. prosecutors claimed that casey anthony stored her daughter's body in the trunk of her car. testimony about the role of maggots and other bugs in decomposition. >> the reason insects are important is because insects discover dead bodied did is very, very quickly because they will colonize a dead human the same way they do any other dead animal. we have all seen road kill sitting on the side of the road and you see green and blue flies buzzing around it. those flies are the same ones attracted to it the dead human
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body. >> shepard: that is the bug expert for the defense who says the insect evidence is important and that which comes from the trunk of casey anthony's car does not suggest there were human remains there. if we. >> if we assume there is a body in the car trunk you would expect to find hundreds if not thousands of these adult blow flies. >> shepard: and they didn't. he is trying to refeut the prosecution's insect expert who said the evidence suggested there had been a decomposing body in the car for three to five days. prosecutors say she kept the body in the trunk before dumping the body in the woods. several witnesses testified about smelling possible human remains coming from the trunk. the defense lawyers say it was just rotting trash. phil keating has been covering the trial from the beginning and is live outside the courthouse from orlando. what else did the defendant's
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bug expert say about the crime scene? >> he talked about the insect activity or lack thereof. the early colonizing flies spending their time feeding and lying eggs on top of dead bodies or dead animals and that is where the prosecution team turned this into an amazing day of cross-examination. best so far of the trial. he took the defense's expert witness and went back to the car trunk and started talking to him about the smell of decomposition. >> so whereever this body ,ecomposed it would smell stink, wouldn't it? >> it would smell bad, yes. >> and that smell would be difficult to ever get out, wouldn't it? >> it is difficult, yes. >> not only did the prosecution steal the witness for the day from the defense because he was unable to say that the remains had been moved maybe in august or september to the location where they were found in
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december, they got their witness the defense witness to agree it most likely was moved on the third to fifth day after the body had died. and also got him to basically concede that the smell that about a dozen witnesses have identified at the trunk of casey anthony's car was that of decomposition. >> shepard: we heard from the defense's surprise witness outside of the courthouse, right? >> yeah, he showed up unannounced. this is vasco thompson. he was a late surprise add by the defense team to the witness list. a convicted kidnapper. served more than ten years in prison and according to the defense team investigators he spent four phone calls either texting or calling with george anthony the day before caylee was reported missing. he showed up today to clear his name. >> i thank god i'm here to straighten this mess up. i have no idea who george anthony is. i seen him on tv.
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and like i said, i never -- i don't know him. and the phone number in question, i didn't have that phone number until february of '09. >> now, it seems unlikely that vasco thompson will ever take the witness stand in the trial. all in all, with the cross-examination the past 30 minutes a good day for the prosecution and a very bad day for casey anthony. >> shepard: developments at the courthouse for us. we will go back live there. in addition, there was action outside the courthouse long before the doors opened. happened in the daily line to get public viewing tickets for the trial. look at this. that is like 5:30 in the morning. and on it went. here is what the guy in the head lock had to say. >> the guy just kind of pushed
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me back and grabbed me from behind. he caught me off-guard and tried to pull me out of line. we have all been here since 6:00 yesterday. >> shepard: did you hear that? since 6:00 yesterday. they start lining up at 6:00 p.m. the previous day to get in at 5:30 or 6:00 a.m. the next day. and the fist fight and past troubles in the same line apparently led to new rules. more on the overnight rules for lining up to watch a murder trial. plus we will hear from people who have been in these lines coming up live later on in the newscast. if you like, you can chat along with jonathan hunt about the trial. log on and get it started. jonathan is in th the newsroom monitoring all of the proceedings in orlando. we will check back with him and with phil keating for updates throughout the hour. casey anthony's lawyers have only just started their attempts to chip away at the
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case against her. 30secutors called more than 30 witnesses and presented hundreds of pieces of evidence, some of which were controversial. that means the defense has a long way to go to try to refeut or explain everything the jury saw and heard. and still the question of whether casey anthony will take the stand in her own defense. let's get to our legal team. arthur ayala and randy. phil is suggesting this has been a good day for the for thetion ring deution and a prosecution and a bad day for the defense. >> the prosecutor did a fantastic job in switching. he turned the tables and got them evidence that is most important to him. the stink of the dead body in the trunk. he got their expert to say yes, these bugs would be attracted to the stink and it would be very noticeable and take a long time to disappear. when you sit down as a lawyer after you just got the other side's witness to say what you wanted them to say you are feeling good about yourself.
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>> shepard: one of the contentions by the expert on the part of the defense is these bugs would be here by the hundreds or thousands and they weren't there. that was the point he was trying to get to the jurors. >> in my opinion, tie goes to the runner. the defense made some hay in this thing because the jury has to be left wondering wait a second, dead body, there, the smell, where are the bugs? anything you can take away from what the prosecution wants them to focus in on that is really huge. and again, no one can still say what, when, why, and even how. >> shepard: that is a potential problem for the jurors who want those answers they are not getting them. at least not yet. >> here is the thing. the defense attorney stood up and gave a story as to what happened. how this child died. and if he is going to be true to that story the most powerful thing he could do when a bug expert comes up to say your honor, i have no questions. in other words, the bugs are
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irrelevant to him. he focuses on what was the cause of death. the cause of death according to him is drowning. bugs are irrelevant. where the body is recovered is irrelevant. the cause of death is the only thing the jurors are supposed to take into account. the fact they are not putting anything on in regards to the cause of death is a failure from the defence. >> that is why he is a great defense attorney. or ask one question, whether or not this child was suffocated or she drown your findings would have been the same. >> shepard: right now we are dealing with forensics. at some point this lawyer is going to could have come back with the thing that he said from the very beginning and that was this -- casey anthony watched the child drown. the father of casey anthony said look what you have done, you are in big trouble, how could you do this and they began an elab rat coverup that involved her.
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the point from the beginning was that casey anthony was abused. she was sexually abused by her father. she was sexually abused he indicated by her brother and through all of these years of abuse, casey anthony took that abuse and put it in a box and in a place in her mind where she could not access it to save herself from a pain which she could not get past. fast forward now. a dead child. the father who has molested her according to the prosecution lawyer, that same father is now putting her in another position. she is tare fied, nos all of tt no another box in the same place. she is beaten and abused and could never have killed her child, this was an accident and she is not all together there. he hasn't begun this process yet with the witnesses and he is going to have to, isn't he? >> he really has. everybody talks about those pictures. hurting the defense.
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the great pictures. the smiling. how great they look together. >> shepard: and they did. >> think about it. that plays right into what you just said. it is inconsistent with this monster. her behavior is equally consistent with her having put everything in a box and a her being a monster. but the pictures don't portray the monster. >> the only evidence so far and it is not evidence that any of this sexual molestation happened is yesterday when the defense expert was on the stand he said did you check the little girl's dna for whether it matched her grandfather's? object sustained. or her brother's. objection sustained. and the judge took his head off and said you are asking questions only because you want the jury to take inferences. it is irrelevant. that is the only way he is trying to get that in there through the questions and the jury is going to be told that is not evidence. >> shepard: we are just getting started. a lot more to get through in the case. does the prosecution have
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enough for a conviction? when did it happen? where did it happen? how did it happen? what were the circumstances? what if there are holes for the jury on this matter, can they convict murder one, put you to death? more on the trial as it happens. fox news .com, every minute streaming live there. see it on our ipad app as well. if you don't have it, go out and get it. in life, you're either the gas™... or the brake™. help !
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a live look inside the casey anthony courtroom. that is the new seal, remember in the o.j. trial they would go to the seal of the state of california with the camera above the judge when they would be in break. here they zoom into the eagle on top of the flag. a short recess in the trial which gives us a chance to catch you up on the day's testimony. it will continue in the trial in a few minutes. defense lawyers working to plant reasonable doubt in the mind of just one juror. 24-year-old casey anthony faces first-degree murder charges, could get the death penalty in
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florida if convicted. we will listen in as the news warrants. our legal panel is back. arthur aidala and criminal defense attorney randy zellin. is there more of this tedious forensic expert witness testimony coming? >> it would seem to be that way. the critical thing that baez has to do here is either just beat them up and create the reasonable doubt or start weaving in what i said in opening statements. interesting to see what way he goes. that will have a big impact on the jury. >> and what is going to hurt him as much as it hurt the prosecutor is that it took so long to find the body that he is not going to have any expert forensic people who are going to be able to say with any degree of medical scientific certainty that no, the baby didn't die from chloroform and duct tape it died from x, y or z. he will not have anything to insert that rebu rebuttal.
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>> once again, we start thinking about reasonable doubt. no one has been told what happened. >> shep you asked the question is there enough to convict? from a human standpoint this is what i would call a general principles conviction. the jurors may disobey the law and say i do have a reasonable doubt exactly how it happened but the way this woman acted before, during and after lets me believe in my gut. that is what common sense. >> you know what is going to save her? she is a pretty girl. she is now 24 years old. when you take those two combinations a jury may have a difficult -- well, she is 25 now. a jury may have a difficult time saying i'm putting this kid to death. >> shepard: you know what i haven't heard enough about to satisfy my curiosity is the meter reader who found the body. months before he found the body he stumbled across there and we know he did because he made a phone call. they never found what it was he
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was talking about. fast forward, all of a sudden same meter reader finds body. >> and we haven't heard anything. >> weird. it is a hole in this thing. why couldn't they find that body. they were out searching for weeks. >> it would be an advantage to the defense. >> you could exploit it by simply saying where is this guy? >> shepard: yeah. >> that would be a better exploitation because if you put him on you never know what is going to come out of the guy's mouth. if you don't put him on, you can say whatever u you want. if baez stands up and says you never heard from the meter reader the prosecutor would say because it is irrelevant. what matters is did this person kill that little girl? it doesn't matter who found her. it doesn't matter how she was found. it matters meaning not how she was found physically but who found her. >> if you want to get super
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sophisticated the prosecution could call in the trap of trying to tie up everly loose end. they think they have to plug in every hole. they only create confusion. >> shepard: much more to come today. we have been watching it unfold for three years now. started as a search for a missing toddler and warped into a murder trial. now, let's trace the early steps of the case as we wait for the next witnesses in the casey anthony trial continuing in extensive coverage here on studio b. [ male announcer ] the network --
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>> shepard: continuing coverage on studio b of the casey anthony trial and a live look coming here from the courtroom. they are in a short recess. they will be back in just a few minutes and we will listen in live as we cover the trial. testimony resumes then, casey anthony's defense team trying to convince a jury that she
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didn't kill her daughter caylee. as casey's lawyers continue to present their case here is a look back at the timeline of this tragedy. >> there is something wrong. i found my daughter's car today and it smells like there has been a dead bodied did i in the damn car. >> it started on july 15, 2008 when casey anthony's mother cindy called 911 to report that her granddaughter caylees missing and had been for a month. the following day police arrested casey anthony on charges of child neglect, making false statements and obstructing an investigation. the detective noted that casey "showed no obvious emotion as to the loss of her child". let's start getting the truth. if you did something and you don't want any one to find out because you think you are a bad mom. >> later we learnd that casey told detectives that little caylee was with a babysitter a woman the defense now admits
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never existed and that she had been partying for much of the month her daughter was missing but in her first phone call from jail casey lashed out at her parents. >> shepard: in her first court appearance a judge denied bond saying casey anthony showed a woeful disraferred for the welfare of her -- disregard for the welfare of her child. on august 6, investigators began to remove evidence from the anthony home. those in the neighborhood praying for the return of caylee and casey's parents began to speak to the media. >> i know that someone has my granddaughter, they do. >> the following day casey allowed her family to visit her in the orange county correctional facility but there were more denials.
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talk she was soon back behind bars and then the anthony family reached its boiling point. >> come on. >> shepard: in early october, investigators officially named casey anthony a suspect in her daughter's disappearance. on the 14th they charged her with first-degree degree murder. but because there was no body, the case was largely circumstancial. at the end of that month prosecutors announced they would be seeking the death penalty. documents emerged that someone used the anthony's home computer to research neck breaking. on december 11, a meter reader reported he discovered bones in some woods near the anthony home. >> we found a human skull. >> oh, my gosh. >> a skull that we believe is human.
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>> shepard: six days before christmas authorities made the tragic announcement. >> with regret i'm here to inform you that the skeletal remains found on december 11 are those of the missing toddler caylee anthony. >> shepard: from the start the prosecution relied on a lot of circumstancial evidence and untested science at very best to try to prove the case. the odor in the car, the come peurter searches for chloroform and neck breaking. the sticker residue very much in question from the crime scene. and now the question, will it be enough for a conviction? we'll speak with a former judge, judge alex from florida. that's next. it's the bottom of the hour, time for the top of the news and that means back to the trial as the testimony is to resume, right after
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get help right away if you have swelling of the face or throat, or trouble breathing. tell your doctor your medical history anfind an arthritis treatment for you. visit and ask your doctor about celebrex. for a body in motion. >> shepard: i'm shepard smith. this is studio b. it is the bottom of the hour. time for the top of the news. jurors in the casey anthony murder trial hearing new evidence today from an expert on bugs. the defense brought him in to try to discredit the testimony from one of the prosecution's key witnesses. you heard a lot about the apparent odor in casey anthony's trunk. prosecutors and even casey's own mother claimed it smelled like a dead body. the defense claims it could have come from garbage in the trunk. the prosecution has based much of its case on circumstancial evidence and what the defense has called junk science. the defense also pointed out the state has not proven where
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or even how caylee anthony actually died. with us now, judge alex. a former florida circuit court judge and host of judge alex on the big fox network. great to see you. thank you. >> you, too, shep. we still miss you in miami. >> shepard: i miss being down there. let me tell you, circumstancial case is enough to convict anybody. circumstancial evidence is enough if you have enough if you lay it out right. your thoughts on how they are doing? >> i think the prosecution is doing a fantastic job. they put before the jury a very strong circumstantial case. granted everybody wants to see a confession or eyewitness but you don't always have that. in this case they have strong evidence, the child was found in the woods in triple bags, duct tape around her mouth. mother never reported her missing. mother went out partying. mother's car smelled like decomposition. >> shepard: the players are back in court and we will listen to the testimony in a
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moment as you can see in the lower right-hand side of the screen. what is it that you think this jury wants to hear? is it the story that the defense attorney told at the beginning playing itself out? >> yes, absolutely. the defense made a huge, huge tactical mistake by laying out the opening statement because they now married themselves to the facts that they won't be able to deliver. the drowning theory might have flown with the jury had she not involved her father in it. she is asking the jury to believe that her father who loves her so much he is actually willing to throw away the body of his grand daughter own though his granddaughter drown and he is an ex-police officer who knows she is not going to get in trouble for it. yet when she gets charged with first-degree murder and facing the death penalty the father doesn't come forward and say it is a mistake, we found the body in the pool? makes no sense. i'm waiting to see how they get around that.
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>> shepard: players in the courtroom. judge alex, stay with us. look live now. >> when did you -- just curious. okay. all right. you may continue. >> thank you. may i approach the witness? >> you may. >> i will show you state exhibit 136. and i will speak to the microphone up here. this is a salami can. salami container. youngsters u see the item inside there? >> yes, i can. >> appears to be a piece of paper, doesn't it? >> appears to be a piece of
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paper. >> may i publish? you may publish. >> shepard: this is the defense witness on bugs and this can be very important. weigh hear frowe will catch yoa second. >> you would agree that there is no food in that trash bag? >> there does not appear to be any food in the trash. >> now, you mentioned in direct examination about cleaning up a
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decomp scene or decomp of artifacts, correct? >> yes. >> now, you could take a paper towel and clean up decomp fluid in small amount that might be on a surface, correct, soak it up with paper towels, correct? >> i don't think it would be effective but you could certainly try. >> sure. and you could even vacuum out any bugs that were left behind in the car with a vacuum cleaner at any gas station, correct? >> that is possible, yes. >> the only thing you cannot get rid of is the smell? isn't that, correct? >> i think the cannot get rid of i think is a -- >> shepard: you can get rid of the bugs, you can get rid of the fluid, you can't get rid of the smell and it has been the
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smell that is the key for the prosecution as the prosecution goes after the defense witness. listen. >> for example, given the research i conducted in the car trunk to get rid of all of the insect evidence as you suggested it would involve removing the carpet liner and vacuuming underneath it from all of the -- excuse me, the trunkand kranies of the itself. i think the smell is possible to remove but difficult. >> what were the accumulated degree days on your pick experiment? >> i would have to reference my data and i don't believe i have it with me. >> but in comparing the decomposition event you showed us with the pig to anything that might apply to the case that is essential to know the stage of decomposition, correct?
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>> yes. >> so but you can't tell us what the accumulated degree days were for your pig experiment? >> they would be considerably less depending on how long you are proposing. >> what was the average daily temperature for the ten days that the pig was in the trunk? >> approximately 60 degrees fahrenheit. >> did you -- is that because you wrote it down and you already did the calculation or is that just your estimate? >> that is based on a calculations but i'm going from memory here because, again, i don't have it in front of me. >> so ten days at 60 degrees would compare to how many days at 90 degrees? >> well, it would be 600 accumulated degree days assuming a base of zero. >> sure. >> for ten days at 60 and then 600 divided by 90 would give you the approximate number of
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days. >> which would be about six and change? >> that sounds about right. >> not two? >> not two. >> so you would agree that a state of decomposition of your experiment does not, in fact, coincide with two days of decomposition of a two and a half-year-old child wrapped in a blanket and in two laundry bags, two garbage bags and a laundry bag, you would agree that your experiment does not match that scenario, wouldn't you agree? >> if you include the increase in temperature due to solar radiation in the vehicle that would or could substantially increase the number of accumulated degree days per calendar day or per hour. and again, it would depend on if you are giving me a scenario of two days then no, it would
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be more in the experimental. >> and if the trunk was hotter than an average of 90 degrees, decomposition would go even faster, correct? >> yes, that is, correct. >> shepard: what they are trying to say is your experiment with a pig in a trunk and a decomposition experiment with a pig in the trunk at 60 degrees is not the same as a little girl's body left in two trash bags and a laundry bag in the sweltering heat of florida. judge alex is back with us. judge, what is your sense of how this testimony is playing? >> it started out playing really well for the defense. the witness was likeable. it looked like the best witness the defense has put on so far and then mr. ashton got up to cross examine and has given an amazingly effective cross-examination and in my opinion decimated the defense witness. he is right, doing a comparison
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to a pig in a trunk the test that the witness ran in nebraska in september, you can't compare that to orlando, florida, in july. just simply not comparable. orlando in florida in july is like vietnam, it is nothing like, nebraska. the decomposition is going to be totally different. beyond that he has attacked every opinion that the expert has created and the basis for the opinions. i think he has really hurt the defense now. >> shepard: judge alex, thank you. the defense back at it. we will get back to it, right after this. ♪
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>> shepard: now, the defense on redirect of the witness about the bugs and decomposition. here, listen. casey anthony trial, orlando. >> since you have 75 in the bag, wouldn't you expect to find 75 in the trunk of the car? or something or close to that amount? >> if you assume that the body
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came from the trunk of the car during that period i would expect to find many more than 75. >> okay. and since the fly has six legs? >> yes. >> you would have to find 75 times six legs? >> well, it would be more than that because the -- well, let me rephrase that. the 75 refers to the peak area, the casings of the flies that were recovered from the bag. the legs come from the adults so it would be many more than one if fly parts or dead flies were in the trunk, yes. >> okay. so as far as you and dr. haskell are concerned, you agree that the body was moved but you disagree as to where the body was prior? >> yes.
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dr. haskell makes the association with -- >> he is commenting on the witnesses' testimony. >> this witness has been during cross, mr. ashton asked significant questions as to this person and actually had him read from his report. >> as to the scene, that is, correct. >> approach. i need to know what the answer is going be before i can rule. >> shepard: what they are doing in this courtroom now is trying to get to the bottom of what was in the back of the trunk or what was in the trunk. what the defense wants to say is in that trunk was trash. the trash decomposed, the smell of the decomposition smelled like a dead body. look, there are no bugs in there, no this, no that. now, we are talking about flies. arthur and randy talking about the flies that are produced and if you see this many should you expect to see that many in the trunk. jose baez the defense attorney. >> if the prosecution's theory
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is correct and caylee was back there for a long time decomposing there should be a lot of fly parts and legs and wings. and there was not. and so there the defense is saying see, we told you it wasn't in the trunk. as a prosecutor you argue it is irrelevant. >> shepard: now, the judge is wanting to know before the testimony is allowed because it can be prej dicks prejudicial,f reasons it might not be allowed. he brings all of the lawyers up to the desk. >> which is strange because the answer shouldn't make a question the proper question. the question itself is either proper. to rule based upon let me hear the answer, that is kind of weird. the trap that the prosecution is falling into a little bit is you will get there and say she could have cleaned out the trunk, couldn't she? that is something the defense does as a hail mary. you get concerned that the prosecution is playing into the game. >> we have time for a quick break. we'll resume, right after this.
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dee deerd: waiting for sixes in the anthony trial. we will have more on the casey anthony murder trial in a moment. a little bit of other news today. nato war planes striking in broad daylight, pounding the target of the capital city of tripoli in the war in libya. not clear what the bombs hit or whether there was any casualties as nato ramps up the pressure on quadaffi's regime. chris wallace is with us now. chris, how can they keep sitting there and telling us we are not at war when we are at war? i don't care if we war or not, be none of my business. no one cares my opinion on this matter. i get it. but when you shoot at them and they shoot at you, and you are
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spending $1.1 trillion, trillion dollars through the end of september, it's a war. >> chris: i think it is $1.1 billion but close enough. >> shepard: it's a war! >> chris: i understand. it is curious reasoning and the problem that the administration has is the war powers act. >> shepard: that is the problem, isn't it? >> chris: well, yes, it is. >> shepard: yes. >> chris: and the thing is there is 60 days and then they have another 30 days and the 90 days runs out on sunday and obviously the war in libya and it is war, you are quite right, is not going to be over on sunday. instead of saying as perhaps they should, we don't recognize the validity of the war powers resolution let's have a court test which would kick the ball down the road a little bit they are saying that is a war is not a war. there is a certain amount of
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hypocrisy on all sides. dep crates like nancy pelosi not objecting to -- democrats like nancy pelosi not objecting to all this where conversely if it was george bush she would be screaming bloody murder. and raising heck with barack obama. so everybody is kind of going through the political motions here. >> shepard: has anybody tried to calculate exactly how many wars this nation can fight at once? afghanistan, iraq. we have the not war in libya. we have yemen on the way. we have a syria problem. down the road we have saudi arabia. how many wars can we fight at once? can we do a dozen? can we do 15 wars? is china willing to give us the money directly to fight our wars so we can collapse and have no more money ala the soviet union? oh we war ourselves into oh bliiveon. >> chris: might i sugar i have the right guy -- might i
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suggest, i have the right guy to answer that question. robert gates 11 days before he steps down as secretary of defense. i think it is a sensible question to ask him. in addition and talk about an odd couple, we will have the first sunday show interview ever with jon stewart of the daily show. a particular fan of shepard smith. and he will be on and i have been on his show and he has grilled me about fox news. i will grill him about bias in the mainstream media. >> i cannot wait. this sunday on "fox news sunday". chris wallace, looking forward to it for real and some day i will come down there and see you when i'm like living on a different planet and we will do is show together and it would be awesome. >> chris: i would like that. >> shepard: good to see you, pal. thank you. >> chris: okay. >> shepard: casey anthony's defense team trying to punch holes in the prosecution case. we learned a lot from an insect expert who testified about bugs
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liberty mutual auto insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? >> shepard: continuing coverage of the casey anthony murder trial. that is the judge on the left-hand side of the screen. a live look at casey anthony herself below me there in the brady bunch boxes and the defense is on redirect. the defense had its time with the witness. then the prosecution got its time and now the defense is back again with this witness for the defense on bugs and decompositioning in the trunk. and this is going to go a long way toward helping the judge -- towards helping the jury to understand whether there was ever a body in the back of that trunk. that is the goal. here, listen. well, it appears they are in a time-out. >> deliberating what the jury can or can't hear or maybe showing something to the jury. publishing something to the jury which we can't see.
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that is my understanding. >> quite often to make sure the jury understands the impact of what the cross-examination and redirect is all about. a lawyer asks the judge can i come up to the jurors and show it to them and point it out? >> shepard: what is your sense of the effectiveness of this? >> in terms of what? >> shepard: ought to be fly parts. all the details the experts are getting into. >> i will go out on a limb and disagree with judge ai alex. as devastating as it may seem, you still have 12 people wondering, wait a minute, i watch on law & order, dead bodies, you will have flies, something more than the smell. we have smell no, flies. maybe baez is not so dumb with the crazy defense. they are sitting there waiting for it and distracted now. when is the defense coming out. now, all of a sudden, bugs, reasonable doubt. >> what the prosecutor is going to say is because the experiment was so off because of the facts of this particular
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case. >> shepard: he did the ex-pair shnt witexperiment with a pig e trunk at 60 degrees. the lack of oxygen, come on. >> in 90-degree heat. >> what the prosecutor is going to say is even their experts admit the stink, the smell and ladies and gentlemen, let's play the 911 tape from three years ago, hi, this is grandma, there is a stink in the back of the trunk. that's devastating evidence. >> shepard: it smells like a dead body in my daughter's car. >> but still doesn't tell you when, how and why. >> but the defense team isn't scoring any points with the witness rebutting how where and why. >> you almost don't know who is representing who. normally on redirect you do a little cleanup and sitting down. baez is almost tap dancing with his own witness. ashton made him his own witness. he did a really good job. >> shepard: again the court is in a break at the moment. we will head over to "your


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